tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post2480981356136925375..comments2023-11-02T05:04:59.172-04:00Comments on Third Base Politics: The furor, and the truth, about the new "Yes on Issue 2" commercialNick (aka Bytor)http://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-31760721593806135482011-10-13T12:36:44.351-04:002011-10-13T12:36:44.351-04:00Modern continues to quibble. If it weren't so ...Modern continues to quibble. If it weren't so pathetic and if the stakes were'nt so high his quibbling would laughable.<br /><br />His latest comment is just pointless. Aparently in liberal land changing the subject is the order of the day.<br /><br />It is important to note that Modern is no longer arguing that SB5 will save money. Now's he's arguing about how much.<br /><br />That sure sounds like an admission of defeat to me. the simple fact is that the state is broke. SB5 saves the government, and therefore the taxpayers, money.<br /><br />Modern can't countenance that though. saving the taxpayers is just not something in which liberals are interested.<br /><br />Just look at the current face of liberalism on the national front. All we hear about is more taxes, more taxes, more regulation, more taxes.<br /><br />And for what? So public employees can live better than the taxpayers that fund them? So crooked politicians can waste millions on stupid "green" ventures designed to enrich their cronies? So fat men with no jobs and even less ambition can sing songs extolling the virtues of food stamps?<br /><br />Modern is in denial. The inexorable power of Thatcher's law is being felt in America and liberals simply don't have an adequate response.<br /><br />skipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-48214600898391214832011-10-13T02:06:09.835-04:002011-10-13T02:06:09.835-04:00FACT: There isn't a single study that has conc...FACT: There isn't a single study that has concluded that passage of Issue 2 will prevent any layoffs caused by the cuts in local government funding by the Kasich "Jobs" Budget. Even the rosiest estimates by the Administration of the *potential* savings of Issue 2 is less than cuts to local government funding in Kasich's budget.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-66304717854624333212011-10-13T02:03:29.776-04:002011-10-13T02:03:29.776-04:00Note that Better Ohio doesn't mention the fact...Note that Better Ohio doesn't mention the fact that the closing of the firehouse and the layoffs were ultimately avoided. So by "updating" your story to include that critical detail that Better Ohio omitted and still omits, he admits that the Better Ohio post on Chillicothe is misleading.<br /><br />So, you're still defending one Better Ohio lie with another Better Ohio lie. Congratulations.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-20234848564208424742011-10-13T02:01:29.869-04:002011-10-13T02:01:29.869-04:00Bytor-
I love how you accuse me of lying, but I&#...Bytor-<br /><br />I love how you accuse me of lying, but I'm the one that forced you to issue a correction (you called an "update.") Seriously, it's embarassing.<br /><br />You claimed the city was "less safe" because you thought that this union contract ultimately resulted in the loss of jobs. It didn't.<br /><br />Again, if a grant is a federal "bailout" then Kasich's budget is filled with BILLIONS of such bailouts, folks.<br /><br />And it wasn't stimulus money, either. I believe FEMA had such grant programs about two presidents ago.<br /><br />Bytor falls on his face, forced to edit his post, then calls me a liar after I was the one who corrected him. Nice morals.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-70884612285440446972011-10-12T13:38:09.046-04:002011-10-12T13:38:09.046-04:00Modern-
No matter how you look at this, the money ...Modern-<br />No matter how you look at this, the money wasn't there until Obama's one-time stimulus shot in the arm. All that did was make a situation worse by kicking the can (responsibility and accountability for the problem) down the road-- instead of taking the necessary actions to fix the problem.<br /><br />...you are simply in denial.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-28487640013168601852011-10-12T13:17:56.876-04:002011-10-12T13:17:56.876-04:00Oh and Modern's first comment demonstrates his...Oh and Modern's first comment demonstrates his argumentive nature and his lack of understanding of, you know, um, like, actual money.<br /><br />Arguing that it was "WAGES, not health care benefits..." is just plain stupid.<br /><br />The issue is the cost of labor. Period. Apparently such a basic concept is simply beyond the boy's comprehension.<br /><br />How sad for him.<br />skipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-54396191002693957572011-10-12T11:58:26.551-04:002011-10-12T11:58:26.551-04:00The question is: how do people like Modern live wi...The question is: how do people like Modern live with themselves?<br /><br />They want what is clearly bad for the rest of us and they don't care how much it costs.<br /><br />Just look at the exchange about chillicothe. These tough choices happen because the "unit" cost of a given employee is artificially raised by the unions.<br /><br />Lorain is in the same boat. They've cut back on services because they cannot afford the staff.<br /><br />As I recall there was an example of an arbitrator simply assuming that Cincinnati could raise taxes to meet union demands. <br /><br />Unless we change the basic relationship between tax payers and union coffers we're going stay where we are as a state: doing the porcelain swirl.<br /><br />yet Modern and his ilk continue to demand the unsustainable. Why?<br /><br />skipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-58099288225906429232011-10-12T10:17:30.700-04:002011-10-12T10:17:30.700-04:00In which we see the full dishonesty of Modern on d...In which we see the full dishonesty of Modern on display:<br /><br /><i>The layoffs didn't happen last fall, Bytor. You already pointed to a 2011 Dispatch article that showed the closing of Firehouse 3 hadn't occurred.</i><br /><br />The February 2011 Dispatch article that is linked to CLEARLY states, word for word:<br /><br /><i>The approach of vacation season <b>and the layoffs of five firefighters last year</b> make it impractical to keep the station open with adequate staffing, Vaughan said.</i><br /><br />and..<br /><br /><i><b>The city closed Fire Station No. 4 on University Drive in the fall amid budget cuts that included laying off firefighters.</b> Voters rejected a request for a 25percent income-tax increase in November that would have aided the police and fire departments.</i><br /><br />Yet Modern comes on here and says that the layoffs <i>didn't</i> happen, and says the Dispatch article proves it.<br /><br />Um...what? That demonstrates that Modern either is stupid, or dishonest. I don't believe he is stupid, so its clear he is outright lying about what the article says, hoping people believe him without reading it and buy into his hysterical taunting and theatrics.<br /><br />The layoffs happened, Modern, and they closed at least one station as a result of an arbitrator granting union demands the city couldn't afford and the voters saying no to new taxes.<br /><br />Only by a very fortunate federal grant were they able to be rehired, and I clearly updated the post to include that information last night. Only in your world, Modern (and Ted Strickland's), does a federal bailout equal a solution to the problem.<br /><br />As far as the splicing of Granny into the ad, I did not defend that tactic, and even said I understand the outrage over it. However, I focused on the substance of the ad, which is correct. Issue 2 will save cities like Chillicothe money, and prevent layoffs from occuring.<br /><br />Have a wonderful day, Modern. I'm finished arguing with you on this thread. Go ahead and keep throwing the same old insults you recycle here every week.Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-71113655412610734832011-10-11T23:18:42.349-04:002011-10-11T23:18:42.349-04:00I love how you guys want to suggest it was *I* tha...I love how you guys want to suggest it was *I* that never mentioned the federal grant, when I'm the person who educated Bytor about it in the first place. Seriously, guys, get a life/clue.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-29605878682497437922011-10-11T23:16:28.858-04:002011-10-11T23:16:28.858-04:00BuckeyeBoss- I censor comments? I just approved y...BuckeyeBoss- I censor comments? I just approved yours tonight, genius.<br /><br />The layoffs didn't happen last fall, Bytor. You already pointed to a 2011 Dispatch article that showed the closing of Firehouse 3 hadn't occurred.<br /><br />Bytor didn't write that Chillicothe is less safe because of a federal grant. He wrote that because he thought the layoffs actually took place because he trusted BetterOhio who will abuse a great-grandmother for their doomed political campaign.<br /><br />And it was, again, the Dispatch, that pointed out it will be the Kasich budget that will be responible for layoffs if Issue 2 fails, not union contracts.<br /><br />Bytor, you're just embarassing yourself. It's sad. It's sad that you're standing by a campaign that is intentionally misleading people into thinking a great grandmother supports their campaign. You have no morals apparently. The political ends justify all means. It's tragic to see.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-90233649884650619152011-10-11T23:07:20.669-04:002011-10-11T23:07:20.669-04:00So this Modern guy is complaining about Bytor not ...So this Modern guy is complaining about Bytor not being thorough with his facts when he left out the incredibly important point that the only reason these firefighters got their jobs back AFTER BEING LAID OFF was because of a one-time federal grant?<br /><br />No one takes him seriously, right?<br /><br />They were laid off because of high costs. That means longer response time.<br /><br />I'm glad they got their jobs back, but Buckeye Boss makes a good point that the problem isn't fixed. When the grant runs out, Chillicothe is back into a world of hurt.<br /><br />They need lower costs. SB 5 does that. It seems so simple even this Modern moron should get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-26016012590078001712011-10-11T22:47:55.647-04:002011-10-11T22:47:55.647-04:00Also, has anyone else noticed how Modern censors h...Also, has anyone else noticed how Modern censors his blog's comments? If he's so confident in what he posts, why not allow open discussion like they do here? His hypocrisy would really blow a hole in his credibility, you know, if he had any...BuckeyeBossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-46340630391397610082011-10-11T22:35:45.382-04:002011-10-11T22:35:45.382-04:00I just think its funny that Modern posts from his ...I just think its funny that Modern posts from his account and anonymously. You wanna talk about astroturf...<br /><br />And Modern, since you are obviously unable to grasp basic concepts, let me explain in very simple terms why Bytor is correct in his statement that the city is less safe (even if there were the same number of firefighters as before, which there are not): the employment of their safety forces is now reliant on a federal grant. That may or may not be renewed. In fact, it probably won't be due to the inability of your party to grasp simple concepts and the resulting budgetary woes. And thus, because of this vulnerability, Chillicothe is less safe. QED. Follow?BuckeyeBossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-61183403752241609052011-10-11T22:10:43.879-04:002011-10-11T22:10:43.879-04:00If there's anything that's leading to loca...<i>If there's anything that's leading to local government's to lay people off, it's Kasich's budget, not labor unions.<br /><br />"But the added pressure local governments and schools will be under if Issue 2 fails . . . was created by state funding cuts."</i><br /><br />Hahaha good grief! The layoffs happened last fall, Modern! 2010! Long before Kasich's budget was even WRITTEN or he had been sworn in!<br /><br />Doh!Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-44143289164232244682011-10-11T22:07:05.562-04:002011-10-11T22:07:05.562-04:00Yes, I read the Dispatch article, Bytor, I'm t...<i>Yes, I read the Dispatch article, Bytor, I'm the one that pointed it out to you after you falsely (again) claimed these layoffs took place last fall.</i><br /><br />Good Lord, Modern. Direct from the Dispatch article:<br /><br />The approach of vacation season <b>and the layoffs of five firefighters last year</b> make it impractical to keep the station open with adequate staffing, Vaughan said.<br /><br />Firefighting news has the same info about the layoffs having taken place last fall here: http://www.firefightingnews.com/article.cfm?articleID=90807<br /><br />Same here: http://firegeezer.com/2011/02/12/chillicothe-shrinks-to-one-station/<br /><br />5 of them were laid off last fall after the tax hikes were rejected.<br /><br />Good night, Modern.Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-88908657727295463782011-10-11T21:57:18.843-04:002011-10-11T21:57:18.843-04:00Unfortunately, Bytor, there's nothing "cu...Unfortunately, Bytor, there's nothing "cute" about you and Better Ohio's pathological lying about Issue 2.<br /><br />Be a man and just admit the obvious: you goofed. We all can see it. Stop embarassing yourself by pretending you didn't just take an epic faceplant. It's sad.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-65600313592286648572011-10-11T21:55:10.580-04:002011-10-11T21:55:10.580-04:00Here's what the Dispatch, a pro-union rag if t...Here's what the Dispatch, a pro-union rag if there ever once was, said about this very argument:<br /><br />If there's anything that's leading to local government's to lay people off, it's Kasich's budget, not labor unions.<br /><br />"But the added pressure local governments and schools will be under if Issue 2 fails . . . was created by state funding cuts."Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-52080234372266742982011-10-11T21:52:51.669-04:002011-10-11T21:52:51.669-04:00Yes, I read the Dispatch article, Bytor, I'm t...Yes, I read the Dispatch article, Bytor, I'm the one that pointed it out to you after you falsely (again) claimed these layoffs took place last fall.<br /><br />Seriously, do you not see how ridiculous you look citing back the very sources I had to bring to your attention for the first time because you clearly didn't do any fact checking of Better Ohio's utterly B.S. story?<br /><br />You strut about how nobody can argue with the premise of BetterOhio's ad, citing this Chillicothe story as proof, and you just collapse within minutes due to me spending five seconds on GOOGLE that you obviously never bothered.<br /><br />I wouldn't fault you for scrubbing this entire post I feel so embarassed for you. Go ahead. You have my permission. We'll just pretend you never failed this spectacularly and thoroughly.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-77299645374502210992011-10-11T21:50:04.017-04:002011-10-11T21:50:04.017-04:00Check your facts, Bytor! Nice deflectionCheck your facts, Bytor! Nice deflectionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-17238251941422937702011-10-11T21:47:28.864-04:002011-10-11T21:47:28.864-04:00There are no lies in the ad, Modern. Issue 2 will...There are no lies in the ad, Modern. Issue 2 will prevent more safety forces from being laid off and prevent the need for the feds to bailout cities whose labor costs have skyrocketed.<br /><br />Your antics and your taunting are cute, though!Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-14342144498078899002011-10-11T21:41:11.821-04:002011-10-11T21:41:11.821-04:00Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-38927034267163656362011-10-11T21:39:47.761-04:002011-10-11T21:39:47.761-04:00Bytor--
So the federal grant made the City of Chil...Bytor--<br />So the federal grant made the City of Chillicothe more dangerous?<br /><br />You wrote: "the city is now less safe" and then tweeted that this Chillicothe story is a case study on how only Issue 2 is the ONLY way to prevent these layoffs.<br /><br />And yet, here are the real facts of Chillicothe:<br />* Not a single firefighter ultimately is out of a job.<br /><br />* Not a single fire station ultimately closed.<br />* The firefighters were able to keep their raises.<br />* No taxes were raised.<br /><br />You, not me, you set the standard that Chillicothe's fire department was "proof" that Issue 2 is the ONLY way to prevent layoffs.<br /><br />You = FACEPLANT.<br /><br />You are defending a pro-Issue 2 ad that is a lie... by trying to spread yet ANOTHER lie by Building a Better Ohio. You got busted on it. Just admit it, move on and be more careful next time.Modernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096376710345315767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-6922629312568250072011-10-11T21:32:39.147-04:002011-10-11T21:32:39.147-04:00Epic fail, bytorEpic fail, bytorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-47028792713228096882011-10-11T21:30:54.910-04:002011-10-11T21:30:54.910-04:00Oh I see, they were just lucky... Thanks Bytor, fo...Oh I see, they were just lucky... Thanks Bytor, for that very in depth analysis. Good thing you weren't misleading people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743530438680774250.post-51821493754616370742011-10-11T21:25:59.758-04:002011-10-11T21:25:59.758-04:00Did you read the Dispatch article, Modern? They w...Did you read the Dispatch article, Modern? They were laid off. For months!<br /><br />They were later rehired because the city got a federal grant, but thats not going to happen in every case. They got lucky.<br /><br />They didnt need to be laid off in the first place.Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.com